Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
I wasn't sure which forum to post this in, but since it sounds like this article talks mainly about eligible skating, I think this is the best place to put it:
I can't say I agree with everything written in this article and I hope skaters realize not all their fans on the Internet are this, ahem, scary, but it does make you think...
Very interesting article. I had heard something about fans turning their backs during the medal ceremonies at last year's Worlds. Just plain rude, IMO.
I can really relate to one paragraph. My introduction to message boards was just earlier this year, and there are several (ones I now avoid) that seem to be populated with, I guess the accepted term is "trolls", that seem dedicated to destroying the reputations of certain skaters. I noticed it within days of coming online. This is SO sad. I don't have time to visit as many sites as I'd like (this one, SOI, and Kurt's biographychannel board I check daily), but I frequent these ones because the members are clearly sincere and respect of each other. It's too bad it can't be the same on all boards.
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
with the 2002 Olympics came a lot of NEW fans... and with that "older" fans have had lots of complaints... skaters like Kurt are virtually unknown to MOST of the new fans... and so when a skater like Yags(who has a huge following of newbies) says they admire Kurt for this or that... they have absolutely no idea who he is... but gosh darn it they KNOW yags is ten THOUSAND times better... I am a fan of Yagudin... but I don't frequent his official board. They are way too crazy... in fact I used to be a big time support of his message board up until the Olys... it's just gotten so weird...
I know I'm totally biased when it comes to who I find to be the best(Kurt and/or Scott depending on the mood I'm in ) but I mean if Yagudin says that Kurt's better then that's enough for me
I've seen Kurt attacked by fans of yags over the last year... and I sit there and just ask WHY? What did Kurt do? What didn't he do? Yagudin obviously thinks very highly of him... so I just don't get it... they don't even compete with one another... oh well... the frustrations of net life
then again I work on a couple of official sites myself and I've had no problem... so I dunno
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
I think the article is only showing one side of a multi faceted situation.
Last year I got my Associates Degree. My final paper was titled “It Is Time To Take A Realistic Look At Figure Skating.” I’m proud to say that I got an A on the paper. I’d like to share some of it …
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Since figure skating first appeared in the 1908 Olympics it had had its share of controversies. At those Olympics, after the compulsory figures scores for Nicolai Panin of Russia and Ulrich Salchow of Sweden were announced, Nicolai felt so cheated that he withdrew from the competition.
Less than twenty years later, in the midst of yet another controversy, the most decorated figure skater in history came into prominence. Germany’s Herma Plank-Szabo was favored to win the 1927 World Figure Skating Championship, which was held in Oslo Norway. Her top competitor was 14-year-old Norwegian girl named Sonja Henie. The panel of judges was made up of three Norwegians, one German and one Austrian. The German and Austrian judges thought Plank-Szabo skated better than Henie. The three judges from Sonja’s home country saw it differently. In the midst of controversy, Henie was awarded the gold. Allegations of bloc judging have been present ever since.
In 1980 similar bloc judging was alleged to be the reason that Linda Fratianne had to settle for an Olympic silver medal. The rumor circulating in the skating community was that judges swapped favors to help assure East Germany’s Anett Potzsch and England’s Robin Cousins gold medals. Potzsch and Cousins did end up on top and Fratianne came in second. That meant that the perks, money and name recognition that come with winning a gold were not going to be coming Linda’s way.
In 1994 Oksana Baiul received first place votes from Communist bloc judges, one of which was from a judge who was the father of her first coach. These votes gave Baiul the edge over Kerrigan and won Oksana the gold medal.
These are only a few of the many allegations that spark fury and then fade away. The most recent judging controversy, which resulted in duplicate gold medals being awarded to Jamie Sale and David Pelletier and Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze, may have also faded, but in its wake remains a great deal of turbulence.
I feel that the things that make this particular controversy stand apart from the rest are the obviousness of the bias judging, the media’s handling of the situation, and the way that the International Skating Union’s President Ottavio Cinquanta handled the matter.
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The media was quick to turn this controversy into a circus. Within twenty-four hours of the event many respected skaters, coaches and commentators voiced their outrage. Elena Berezhnaya and Anton Sikharulidze were afraid to show their faces because they felt like people hated them and reporters were hounding Jamie Sale and David Pelletier.
While virtually everyone was commenting on how certain they were that the Canadians skated a better performance, a reporter went to Moscow and filmed a piece focusing on what Soviets thought of the event. Knowing skating fans, I feel that at this point, a differing opinion would have been something that, if presented properly, would have been welcomed. For some reason, the media opted to focus on totally biased fans walking the streets of Russia who gave statements that did little more than bash the Canadians and praise the Russians. The tone of the interviews was bitter and the comments lacked credibility. If during the interviews, someone argued that intricacies, such as edging, costuming, speed and footwork may have entered into the judges decision, then it may have helped show a different side to the scoring. Instead, the interviews only seemed to fan the fire.
A couple of days after the event, ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta, held a press conference that brought that fire out of control. Mr. Cinquanta spoke, and then fielded questions from reporters in an event that lasted over an hour. In this time he danced around virtually every issue and refused to answer both specific and theoretical questions. He not only refused to answer questions that might hamper the investigation, but he virtually said nothing. When asked to state the ISU penalties for specific offenses, he said that the questions were irrelevant and that he would not answer them. This infuriated the reporters who felt that Mr. Cinquanta should have at least been at liberty to state rules and penalties as they are written in the ISU handbook. The press conference, which many hoped would ease the situation, only worsened it.
A couple of days after that press conference, in a virtually unprecedented event, duplicate gold medals were given to the Canadians. In the weeks to follow, a new system of judging was rolled out and its implementation began.
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November 2002, at Skate America, two women landed Triple Axles for the first time in ten years. I did not even see a mention of this on the various message boards, however topics regarding Alexei Yagudin’s and Michelle Kwan’s criticisms of the judging were quite active. Realistically I don’t see the focus shifting in the near future.
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The new judging system is based on anonymity. Similar to the old system, a panel of judges award each skater one “Technical” mark and one for “Artistic Impression.” Now there are more judges scoring each event but not all of their votes count. A computer randomly selects which judges’ votes will count and which will not. The amount of judges will vary from event to event. With the new system, scores from all of the judges are posted in ascending order. Then secretly, the computer selects the ones that count and posts the ordinal marks. These marks are also posted in ascending order. Even after the events are over, no one is allowed to know which judges’ votes were used, or which scores belongs to which judge. The anonymity is supposed to take the pressure off voting for athletes that your federation wants to win. However in the new system’s early stages, many flaws are obvious.
Skating is based on the ordinal system so it really does not matter if a judge gives you a high or low score. The only thing that matters is how that particular judge scores you in relation to the other skaters. With the old system you could see if a particular judge was marking higher, or lower than the other judges and interpret their marks accordingly. With the new system you do not know how one skater did, in comparison to the others until the ordinals are posted. This lessens the excitement for both the fans and skaters. Skaters like Michelle Kwan who used to stare at the marks as they were posting them, virtually don’t even look at them any more.
Luck is now a key factor in the placing. Even with most of the scoring under a shroud, the ordinals that get posted show how the unidentified judges placed a particular skater. As was the case with the old system, being a subjective sport, the judge’s placements of the skaters often vary. So, if the computer randomly picks a majority of high ordinals for one skater and a majority of low ordinals for the other, than by the luck of the draw, the lesser skater can walk away with a gold medal.
Another problem with anonymity is that skaters no longer know who marked them low and more importantly, why they were marked low. Previously a skater, or a couple were allowed to diplomatically ask the judges what flaws they saw and then work on a certain move, or change the choreography accordingly. Now, they do not even know why deductions were taken, or by whom.
This new system is obviously flawed. Add to that a fan base that is not what it was ten years ago, and you get a sport whose image is in desperate need of improvement. Fortunately, the things that need to be done are quite simple.
Not only should the media present a more positive, realistic image of the skaters, but they should spend more time educating the fans. The media sensationalized the Olympic pair’s scandal and made it appear to be more uncommon than it actually was. The publicity was so intense that a duplicate pair of gold medals was awarded. The awarding of duplicate medals was virtually unprecedented and left the impression that this particular scandal was worse than things seen in the past. That image is untrue.
In the 1972 Olympic gold medal basketball game, with three-seconds left, the United States sank two free throws. Those points put them ahead of Russia 50-49. Then the Soviets inbounded the ball and failed to score. As the Americans began celebrating, the Russians claimed that they had called a timeout and the referees put three seconds on the clock and ordered play to be resumed. In those three seconds, the Soviets were able to take one shot. That shot missed and the Americans once more began their celebration. At that point another official noted that the clock was being reset as the ball was being inbounded and the missed shot should not count and the clock should once again be reset to three seconds. The clock was reset and in those three seconds the Russian team scored and the players were awarded the gold medals. A U.S. protest was denied and the team refused their silver medals.
Was the skating scandal worse than the Basketball scandal of 1972, or the scores of others that are as much a part of the Olympics as the torch is. No, it was not, but it did draw attention to an ongoing judging problem and created a situation that should have resulted in strict disciplinary action. Instead, in an effort to avoid upsetting the apple cart, duplicate golds were awarded and a system was put into place that corrupt judges can hide behind.
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Shows may never see attendance levels like they did in the 1990s, but even if they keep pulling in 5000 people, at an average $50.00 or more per ticket, the industry will remain strong. It is important to remember and convey to the fans that the glass is half-full, not half-empty. Instead of being negative, a commentator should point out that major stars like Robin Williams, Bernadette Peters, Carol Burnett, Reba McEntire give most of their performances in theaters that hold far less than 4000 people. And instead of criticizing a skater for falling on a difficult jump, why don’t they point out the fact that the flawless skating exhibitions that we see on television are a result of re-shoots and post production splicing. Better yet, don’t mention re-shoots or post production, just treat the skater who just stumbled with the same respect that a golfer who nearly sinks a forty foot putt would get. They deserve it.
Thank You Tina / The Kurt Files for the SSU Photo/Avatar
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
that was a wonderfully well written paper eddie
i agree with many points, but didn't like seeing oksana's name in there but i suppose i am biased. to me she was the clear winner. but that's my opinion as well you are entitled to your's
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
Eddie LOL ... you sound like me! I incorporated skating into most of my university courses. When I trained as a research analyst and career development practitioner, well, you'd never know it from my assignments ... looked more like I was training to become a skating analyst!! Those excerpts are superb ... I'd like to read the entire paper sometime!
Obvious vote trading and "dirty deals" aside, the bias issue is dicey. It's hard to tell how much is political bias and how much is genuine cultural differences in how artistry is defined and appreciated. We all harbour inherent biases, and the Nancy/Oksana debate is a great example, I think.
One of the networks interviewed former world champion and international judge Jan Hoffman. Apparently, his had been the deciding vote. In his broken English, he said something like Nancy seemed like artistry was taught, yet Oksana skated like it came from within her. It could have been his way of justifying his political bias, but within the framework of my own biases, it made sense.
I'd be a lousy judge, because my inherent bias is to always reward the artist over the technician. Nancy is a superb technician, a graceful skater with lovely lines. Though I've seen her skate on TV many times, I can't recall even one of her programs ... though I can often recall her outfits! I enjoy her skating, but she doesn't make me "feel" anything.
It's the opposite with Oksana. Nancy is a better technician, but Oksana draws me in and evokes a range of emotion in me. I can remember many program details vividly. I recall highlights, special moments, her expressions, and relive how I "felt" when I watch tapes of her skates.
That's my bias ... artistry interwoven with emotion ... but others whose concept of artistry differs from mine may view Nancy as the consummate artist. With S&P and B&S in 2002, Jamie and David were the clear victors, technically and artistically, in my mind. How much of that, though, is a culturally ingrained preference for romance and a modern approach over the more traditional, classical European approach of B&S?
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
I think a lot of it has to do with the nature of the sport. It's very subjective. Everyone sees something different. Any two of us may interpret a program in a completely different manner. I also think that skating fans are very passionate people as it is a very passionate sport...an art really in my opinion.
Also with the birth of the internet a lot of fans who previously didn't have ways to express their opinions have found an outlet. This is not always a good thing. The goldenskate article did bring up a few interesting points. One being that some message boards are just nasty. Even the ones who claim to be non-skater specifc can get vicious. :cough:FSU:cough: I do believe that everyone has a right to their opinion even if it doesn't agree with mine.
I'm in search of myself? Have you seen me anywhere?
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
I was quite pleased to be able to write my final paper on skating. The opinions are mine, however I did a great deal of research and included summaries of past events only to show the history of Skating (and other Olympic sports’) controversies.
I tried to state the facts in the Oksana and Nancy issue as just that…facts. I watched the event and I too would have awarded the Gold to Oksana.
The point I was trying to stress is that the sensationalism of the media is what makes certain controversies appear worse than others and that controversies/differences of opinion are inherent in a subjective sport and that the media making too much out of them can only give the sport an undeserved black eye.
Thank You Tina / The Kurt Files for the SSU Photo/Avatar
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
So true, Eddie! Sometimes it seems like journalistic integrity is an obsolete concept, doesn't it? The media used to consider it their sacred duty to educate the public with the background and history of events, so that the viewer could place any current event within a larger context. Now it's all about the quick ratings grab, and unfortunately, sensationalizing an event seems to attract more viewers. If the same series of events had happened at a Grand Prix event rather than the Salt Lake City Olympics, it would barely have generated a ripple of interest from the media.
Eddie, would you consider providing the entire paper on a thread for us? I'd love to read it! We don't get much opportunity to read well-researched and reasoned pieces discussing historical context of events in skating!!
Nightingalesong, some FSUers definitely don't subscribe to "everyone entitled to their own opinion" !! I post there occasionally, and I just ignore the flamers!! I was really struck by this sentence: "skating fans are very passionate people as it is a very passionate sport". YES!! So true, yet so hard to explain to others that don't share the passion!! I just might borrow that line the next time someone mocks the intensity of my interest in skating!!
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
Jeanine
I’d rather not post the entire report. The report contains interactions (Conversations etc…) between myself and skaters, Michelle Kwan’s security person, and a skating executive.
However here is more of it:
Also LY I posted pieces of it at the SOI site at these URLs
First of all, figure skating hype is nothing new and controversies are inherent to the sport and are here to stay. Secondly, the days of selling out 15,000+ arenas in a day or two are over and they aren’t coming back. If anyone believes differently, and most do, then they are sadly mistaken.
The first major event in the recent history of this sport that should be looked at, is the Tonya Harding, Nancy Kerrigan scandal. On January 6, 1994 Shane Stant assaulted Nancy Kerrigan. The initial police investigation revealed that Nancy’s top US competitor, Tonya Harding, might have been involved. With the Lillehammer Olympics only seven weeks away, the media ran with this story. Soon Nancy and Tonya were household names.
At Lillehammer, Nancy finished 2nd, Tonya finished 8th, and ratings went through the roof. In the years to follow, skating became increasingly popular and most of the credit has been given to the assault.
A scandal has never had a positive long-term affect on any sport. Dale Earnhardt’s dying in a crash didn’t spike his sport’s popularity, nor did Mike Tyson biting off Evander Holyfield’s ear. Headlines draw attention to a situation for a short while and when the allure is gone, the media hypes something else.
Who can forget the anticipation of figure skating fans as the 1988 Calgary Olympics approached? Katarina Witt was trying to become the first woman to win back to back Olympic gold medals since Sonja Henie did it in the 1930s. Her challenger was American favorite Debi Thomas. Katarina and Debi both skated to “Carmen.” Katarina skated first with a performance that left room for Debi. Twenty seconds into Debi’s performance she got into trouble and never recovered. Witt got the gold and Thomas the bronze.
A few days earlier, hometown favorite, Brian Orser, skated against his US rival Brian Boitano in an event that the media called “The Battle of the Brians.” The event indeed lived up to the hype. The skaters both skated wonderfully as millions of fans and nine judges watched. After it was over, four judges favored Orser and the other five thought that Boitano was better on that day. Boitano was awarded the gold medal. That same year 16 year old Ekaterina Gordeeva and future husband Sergei Grinkov captured fans’ hearts as well as the first of their two Olympic gold medals.
So what happened in 1994 that didn’t happen in 1988? If the credit shouldn’t go to Harding, Kerrigan and Stant, then where does it go? The answer is football, cable, and a colorful group of outstanding skaters.
Between 1992 and 1994 so many things happened in the figure skating world that have had long and short term affects on the sport. In order to stagger the Summer and Winter Olympics it was decided to have Winter Olympics in 1992 and then again in 1994. In 1992 after Kristi Yamaguchi won the gold in Albertville, she announced she was turning professional. This meant that in two short years yet another women would stand atop an Olympic podium with a gold medal around her neck for figure skating.
The impact of this was great. Between 1976, when Dorothy Hamill won her gold, and Kristi Yamaguchi’s 1992 accomplishment only two other women had been awarded Olympic gold medals for figure skating. The women were Anett Poetzsch, who won in 1980 and Katarina Witt, who won in 1984 and 1988. Now with the 1994 Lillehammer Olympics only two years after Albertville and Kristi Yamaguchi retiring, the sport was certain to see two different winners in a two year period.
The men’s field was just as exciting. Although he had never fared well in the Olympics, Kurt Browning dominated the World competitions in the early-1990’s. After 4 years on top Viktor Petrenko defeated Kurt in 1992 Worlds. Browning did not take this lightly, and in 1993 he went to Prague and came back home with his 4th World title. This set the stage for an exciting, fierce competition in Norway.
To make things even better for the figure skating world, cable TV was getting bigger than ever and with networks like FOX and ESPN becoming stronger, CBS found themselves without a football contract. Without football, CBS put a major focus on figure skating. This was the first time any network had promoted the sport in this way and the promoting worked. It worked so well that other networks soon followed suit.
The 1990s saw the inception of many skating shows and competitions including:
A Golden Moment
Divas On Ice
Hip Hop on Ice
Rock’n’Skate
Skates of Gold
The Great Skate Debate
Rock n Roll Figure Skating Championships
Brian Boitano's Skating Spectacular
Salute To Gold
Holiday Festival on Ice
Champagne, A Toast on Ice
Fox On Ice
Skating Romance
Legends Championships
Winter Solstice On Ice
A Golden Moment
and others…
In the past, one or two skaters at a time would capture the world’s attention and become household names, but in the mid-1990s we had many. Not only was this new generation of skaters good, but they were diversified and colorful. Some were artistic and some flamboyant, but they all were great at what they did. Triples from the women and Quads from the men were not only common, they were virtually expected.
In the 1990’s we were seeing things from skaters, in exhibitions and on television, that we had never dreamed of in the past. Surya Bonaly was landing a backflip on one leg; Gordeyeva and Grinkov were capturing our hearts; Philippe was skating around topless, and the pair of Isabelle Brasseur and Lloyd Eisler were dazzling crowds with daredevil moves that they had just created.
Prior to this surge, Tom Collins’ Champions On Ice was visiting 15 cities a year and Stars On Ice was making 31 stops. One year later they were each performing at over 60 venues. I remember arriving at 5:00AM in below-zero temperatures, in order to be first in line to purchase tickets. By 10:00AM, when the windows opened, the line was out of sight and within a few hours over 10,000 seats were virtually sold out.
This frenzy lasted a few years, but eventually only the die-hard fans remained. The onslaught of make shift competitions on television paired with three or four live performances at each major venue each year, eventually took its toll and the supply became greater than the demand.
Thank You Tina / The Kurt Files for the SSU Photo/Avatar
Re: Golden Skate article on skating fan behaviour
Thanks for the great links and all that info, Eddie!! I thought of you yesterday, wondering if you were watching the Skate America coverage, and what you thought of the new judging system in action. If I heard correctly, seems it will only be used for Grand Prix events this year, and not for the World Championships. Clearly the lack of transparency is an issue, amongst many, and frankly, well, it's not as much fun!! I mean, what does an excited crowd chant now?? It used to be "6.0!! 6.0!!". What do we do now? ...
197.56!!!, er, no ... 202.43, um, well, ... whee! 199.86 !!!
Grrrrrr!!!!!
I did watch… But it was hard (Impossible) to be intrigued as the scores went up.
I HATE the new scoring system
I feel that it unnecessary.
It’s still anonymous and Anonymity is WRONG.
Accountability and strong penalties for judging violations is the solution.
Not a new system …
Who are they trying to kid with this Smoke and Mirror solution?
Just my opinion!!!
EddieFromRI
Thank You Tina / The Kurt Files for the SSU Photo/Avatar
) but I mean if Yagudin says that Kurt's better then that's enough for me 
Dreaming of CSOI!! Is it April yet? 
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